Loud pipes fine in new york/biker safety.

[quietprofessional]

I am currently writeing a letter to my state assemblyman to refute the proposed bill that will raise the nys "loud pipes" fine from 100 to $700. For statictical research for that letter i read a study called "The hurt report" which was a 400 page study (just read the summary online) done on causes and factors in motorcycle accidents...woud be worth it for you guys to check out...infact im going to post my own thread about the shit, its good reading, and a good safety reminder as we get back into the riding season. http://www.clarity.net/~adam/hurt-report.html check this out guys, and remember, loud pipes save lives...if you guys are interested in also sending a letter to the powers that be in your own states, hit me up, and i can send you a copy of my own letter, this will make it easier to send in, no use in everybody writing letters that say the same thing.:mfight:
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[valkyriegirl]

I am currently writeing a letter to my state assemblyman to refute the proposed bill that will raise the nys "loud pipes" fine from 100 to $700. For statictical research for that letter i read a study called "The hurt report" which was a 400 page study (just read the summary online) done on causes and factors in motorcycle accidents...woud be worth it for you guys to check out...infact im going to post my own thread about the shit, its good reading, and a good safety reminder as we get back into the riding season. http://www.clarity.net/~adam/hurt-report.html check this out guys, and remember, loud pipes save lives...if you guys are interested in also sending a letter to the powers that be in your own states, hit me up, and i can send you a copy of my own letter, this will make it easier to send in, no use in everybody writing letters that say the same thing.:mfight:
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I agree, thats why I changed mine ... we had 3 motorcycle fatalities in my county this weekend alone.

[jrod1970]

unfortunatly here in vegas a bike goes down no matter what kind of pipes are on it, that and you cant walk down the strip without getting run down by a car!:stunned:

[BamaKC]

Interesting reading...how be it most common sense validation of what a little more than casual observation would provide. If you want some more interesting reading Goggle FMVSS 218 .

[Wicked Wanda]

Some more interesting links...this group will do more than your local government.

http://www.amadirectlink.com/legisltn/positions/noise.asp

[Shadow]

remember, loud pipes save lives...
<!-- / message -->Look at that sin, your a hero!!

[Mr.Sinister]

I did not even need to become a Fireman to do it!:lol:

[quietprofessional]

i almost died last october, on my way home from work at 3am.( im a bouncer). a deer ran out in front of me (RIGHT in front of me), hitting my front tire even...i was out for about 35 minutes (and alone) because of the time of day and low traffic area, laying in the freakin road...stupid quiet stock shadow pipes...if it was even a little bit louder, the deer would have ran sooner, not INTO MY GODDAMN BIKE!!!!!

[quietprofessional]

all is well now though, and you know what the only good thing about wrecking? ............................................................>an excuse to do more mods!:jamming:

[Mr.Sinister]

Maby. You can always put a deer whistle on your bike. They are quite to everyone else but loud as fuck to deer ,dogs ,cats ect.

[TinyUFB]

One argument you hear regarding loud pipes is that the exhaust noise is behind you. I have heard NSF instructors teach this to their students, and have read it many times in articles trying to justify quiet exhaust systems.

They claim that since the exhaust pipes are discharging behind the rider, it serves very little as a warning for what may be ahead of you.

This is totally fabricated bullshit.

True the sound level will have a 5 or 6 dB'A' louder field behind the rider, but if your exhaust noise is generating for example 95 dB's, then the forward sound levels will still be somewhere around 87 to 90 dB'A'.

It's that sound that could make someone aware that a bike is approaching.

Tiny

[Shadow]

One argument you hear regarding loud pipes is that the exhaust noise is behind you. I have heard NSF instructors teach this to their students, and have read it many times in articles trying to justify quiet exhaust systems.

They claim that since the exhaust pipes are discharging behind the rider, it serves very little as a warning for what may be ahead of you.

This is totally fabricated bullshit.

True the sound level will have a 5 or 6 dB'A' louder field behind the rider, but if your exhaust noise is generating for example 95 dB's, then the forward sound levels will still be somewhere around 87 to 90 dB'A'.

It's that sound that could make someone aware that a bike is approaching.

TinyNow I wouldn't say TOTAL bullshit... Not only is sins bike loud, he rides faster than the speed of sound. MachSin! :laugh4:

[TinyUFB]

Now I wouldn't say TOTAL bullshit... Not only is sins bike loud, he rides faster than the speed of sound. MachSin! :laugh4:


Got me there.....that Sin is an animal.

But seriously I have some pretty sophisticated sound meters. I ran a test with a Harley Super Glide Sport. Meter was set in an open field (no objects, buildings etc within a 300 ft radius - propagation was not a major issue) Measuring point was set at 45, 90 and 0 degrees (well as close to zero as feasible without getting run over) 90 degrees was set at 10 ft from line of drive.

The results show that the sound force of the oncoming bike was half again or 6 dB'A' lower than when the vehicle passed the measuring point. So if the bike is yielding say 90 dB in back it still has a power of 84 in front.

In other words the damn thing is still LOUD.

[Shadow]

He rides here in Portland and they are mailing his ticket from New York tomorrow!
He would be fine but with the time difference and all, he is keeping New Yorker's up at night.

[Wild Coyote]

I love my loud pipes. I haven't been harassed by police about them yet, but that time will come. I worry more about waking up the little kids in my neighborhood and having the suburban moms come after me!!

[Mr.Sinister]

My bike is Feckin loud. And Having walked around it while it was warming up and standing on one side or another while reving the motor to piss off the nieghbors. I have found that there is a difference in noise. I would hate to be behind me! The faster I ride = the less noise to me. My ears ring less after the freeway than a 35mph jaunt to a friends house or bar hoppin. People do hear me comin from a long ways away. I have yet to out run the buble of sound that I produce. You can hear a jet that is moving hundreds of miles and hour before you see it and it gets louder as it aproaches and less as it getts farther away. You will hear me a few blocks away before you see me.

[Blueshadow]

I know some of you will laugh at a riders course, however, in Oregon we have the Team Oregon Training. They have a beginners and an experienced riders course. I took the experienced riders course and it was woth every penny. They taught slow manuevering and accident/road hazard avoidance. There was some class room with eye opening videos and training and alot of practicle in the field. It really changed the way I ride and has saved my butt a few times already. I'm alot more vigilant for the dumbass drivers out there.

[AirportFF]

One argument you hear regarding loud pipes is that the exhaust noise is behind you. I have heard NSF instructors teach this to their students, and have read it many times in articles trying to justify quiet exhaust systems.

They claim that since the exhaust pipes are discharging behind the rider, it serves very little as a warning for what may be ahead of you.

This is totally fabricated bullshit.

True the sound level will have a 5 or 6 dB'A' louder field behind the rider, but if your exhaust noise is generating for example 95 dB's, then the forward sound levels will still be somewhere around 87 to 90 dB'A'.

It's that sound that could make someone aware that a bike is approaching.

Tiny

Interesting points Tiny. But if, for instance, you are on a fast bike. Not a Shadow. Let's say hmmmmm a Magna. And it's moving faster than the speed of sound. Do the same rules apply?:freak:

[Mr.Sinister]

Interesting points Tiny. But if, for instance, you are on a fast bike. Not a Shadow. Let's say hmmmmm a Magna. And it's moving faster than the speed of sound. Do the same rules apply?:freak: I thought they dicontinued them a long time ago? Does anybody still ride one?:kiss:

[AirportFF]

I thought they dicontinued them a long time ago? Does anybody still ride one?:kiss:


It's what they call a "classic":laugh4:

[Mr.Sinister]

I always loved the Magna. In a perfect world I would own a lot of bikes. I almost bought a yellow one in the late 90's.

[Shadow]

I know some of you will laugh at a riders course, however, in Oregon we have the Team Oregon Training. They have a beginners and an experienced riders course. I took the experienced riders course and it was woth every penny. They taught slow manuevering and accident/road hazard avoidance. There was some class room with eye opening videos and training and alot of practicle in the field. It really changed the way I ride and has saved my butt a few times already. I'm alot more vigilant for the dumbass drivers out there.I agree 100%!
I took the course down on swan island here in Portland. I would recomend it to ANYONE!
We had a gal in our class who brought her daughter. Mom had been riding for years and she wanted to to take the class to support her daughter.
Well, daughter passed the test with flying colors, Mom failed twice and did not get her certificate. Goes to show that no mater who you are, you are never too good to learn a thing or two. :jamming:

[TinyUFB]

I agree 100%!
I took the course down on swan island here in Portland. I would recomend it to ANYONE!
We had a gal in our class who brought her daughter. Mom had been riding for years and she wanted to to take the class to support her daughter.
Well, daughter passed the test with flying colors, Mom failed twice and did not get her certificate. Goes to show that no mater who you are, you are never too good to learn a thing or two. :jamming:


Excellent point. Your story on the Mother, is something we, Pegs and I, see a lot.

As you know, Pegs and I are involved in competition drill. We do a lot of maneuvers that takes precision timing, and a mistake of just a second or two will result in a nasty collision. Yet, with lots of practice, you learn how and you learn it well. Our experiences in drill have saved our butts on the street many times.

When we get guys who want to join our team, we ask them if they know how to ride, and we get the same standard reply on how they have been riding for years. 95% of them go into absolute panic when we take them on the field for a beginner training session. Only the ones that really want to improve their skills will stick it out.

[quietprofessional]

tiny what is it you guys do?

[TinyUFB]

tiny what is it you guys do?

We engineer, design and manufacture exhaust systems for Diesel, Natural Gas and Gas Turbine engines. Most applications are for stationary prime and standby power electrical generation systems, however many are also for marine (150 ft vessels or larger) gas compressors, and large mobile applications like 150 -300 ton ore haulers etc.

We do a variety of silencers (lay - mufflers) including standard applications for sound abatement, spark arrestors, vent blowdown, and of course oxidation and three way catalytic systems for both Diesel and natural gas applications. Some of our 'mufflers' can be as small as a car muffler, while others (like a bunch we are doing now) will measure 8 to 10 feet in diamater and about 45 feet long.

Generally we are given as set of specifications specifying the sound level the customer or government wishes to achieve (like 65 dB'A' at 20 feet from source etc), or pollutant levels etc. and we design the entire system to meet those specifications.

Tiny

[Mr.Sinister]

We engineer, design and manufacture exhaust systems for Diesel, Natural Gas and Gas Turbine engines. Most applications are for stationary prime and standby power electrical generation systems, however many are also for marine (150 ft vessels or larger) gas compressors, and large mobile applications like 150 -300 ton ore haulers etc.

We do a variety of silencers (lay - mufflers) including standard applications for sound abatement, spark arrestors, vent blowdown, and of course oxidation and three way catalytic systems for both Diesel and natural gas applications. Some of our 'mufflers' can be as small as a car muffler, while others (like a bunch we are doing now) will measure 8 to 10 feet in diamater and about 45 feet long.

Generally we are given as set of specifications specifying the sound level the customer or government wishes to achieve (like 65 dB'A' at 20 feet from source etc), or pollutant levels etc. and we design the entire system to meet those specifications.

TinyI think he ment the Shriner motorcycle drill team.:rolleyes3

[TinyUFB]

I think he ment the Shriner motorcycle drill team.:rolleyes3

Ah, I thought he was questioning the source of the Sound Level Test we conducted.

As for drill, I'll let Pegs decribe the routines etc.

[quietprofessional]

ya im curious about it.

[quietprofessional]

interested in the sound engineering also though because of the letter that i will be writing, so not a wasted post.!

[TinyUFB]

interested in the sound engineering also though because of the letter that i will be writing, so not a wasted post.!


If you like I can email a synopsis on sound. We created it for the general public to give them a good idea of what constitutes sound, what is the differences from dB dB'A' dB'C' or weigthed sound levels etc.

Tiny

[TinyUFB]

ya im curious about it.

Sorry for the mix up. We belong to a Shrine Unit, which competes regionally and nationally every year. The competition consists of three events – Drill Routine, Obstacle Course, and Slow Ride. The obstacle consists of lanes about 3 feet wide, has a lot of tight turns and twists, keyholes, and weaves. Fastest time wins. Slow Ride is what it sounds like. A very small area in which you must stay in bounds and ride as slow as you can possibly go without putting a foot down. Both of these are done individually but your team takes the best time.

The drill routing involved all the bikes on your team. You have a specific amount of maneuvers. Some are mandatory and some are left to our own imagination. When the team enters the course they essentially split in half. So 8 riders would consist of two groups of 4. Maneuvers include, fast figure eights, fast corners, tiny bubbles, little wheels, zippers, cut the pie, square corners and weaves. On most of these including weaves each group rides towards the other and at the last minute breaks off or goes into the weave. The finale consists of one rider doing a very tight circle in the center of the field. The remaining riders head out to all four corners and sides of the field. They do a 180 and open the throttle full – racing toward the very center. Object is that all the bikes reach the center at the same time but manage to pass each other and the center rider without hitting. Not a maneuver recommended for the weak of heart.
<O:p
<O:p
I am sure most of the maneuvers I mention mean nothing to you, but it would require a lot of detail to explain each one. In addition to not hitting anyone, the key is to perform these maneuvers in synchronization. Everyone meets up or crosses by or weaves through at the same time, or with his partner. The better your timing is the better it looks and the more points you earn. Also on how tight you are to each other. Pairs should be close enough to grab the others handlebar etc. The tighter the maneuver, the more points earned.
<O:p
<O:p
The nasty part is the inspection before you start any of the competition. You all must be dressed the same. If one button is off while everyone else has that one buttoned – you lose a point. The bikes are also inspected. We generally take 3 to 4 hours to clean our bikes before inspection. They check everything – even the inside of your exhaust pipes –they must be spotless.
<O:p
Hope that helps. I am sure Pegs can offer some better explanation of the individual maneuvers etc

Tiny<O:p

[TinyUFB]

Sorry for the mix up. We belong to a Shrine Unit, which competes regionally and nationally every year. The competition consists of three events – Drill Routine, Obstacle Course, and Slow Ride. Tiny<O:p

I should also add that drill is dangerous. The year before we won first place. Last year we could not compete in drill because of a severe collision, and several spills. Pegs and I were the only ones left that were able to compete. We could not do drill but we did obstacle. I dropped my bike on the second keyhole, but still managed to finish. Pegs took second place which was pretty good conidering there was only two of us who competed for our team.

The Slow Ride just sucks. The only thing it does is help to burn your clutch out.

Tiny

[Shadow]

How about some pics!
do you have any pics you could share with us?

[TinyUFB]

How about some pics!
do you have any pics you could share with us?


Pegs has all the pics. Will try to get him to post some. Most of them just show us laying on the floor drunk, but there might be some drill ones in his pile.

I will say this, that when you are involved in this kind of stuff, the bike and you become one. It is a strange feeling and hard to explain, but it is true. This is not to say we are the best riders, or anything like that. We screw up and make mistakes just like everyone else.

Tiny:drink:

[pegscraper]

Drill maneuvers are very hard to explain. We do most of our maneuvers head on or with opposing sides. The weave that Tiny was talking about is done with two lines of bikes heading at each other. Right before you meet, the front riders each turn to the right a little so you miss. Then it's a fast left as you meet the next guy, then right around the next and so on. Really a nice looking maneuver but takes a lot of concentration and trust! We do a zipper where two guys are in line and they come at the rest of the riders that are paired up. When the two get to the pairs, the pairs split apart to allow the two bikes to go in between then the pairs go back together. We do fast crosses which are basically large figure 8's done at around 35 mph. Some of the required maneuvers are lined up across, pairs and figure 8's. It really is a lot of fun but trust and ability are SO important! Mistakes hurt and cost money. You learn that you go where you look, keep your feet on the pegs and how to turn on an exact spot. The obsticle course is one of the most fun things we do. Takes a lot of practice but makes great riders!
I wish I had some pictures of drill but I don't. I will try to get some this year and post them. Here is a picture of our bikes lined up for inspection.

Pegs

[pegscraper]

Interesting points Tiny. But if, for instance, you are on a fast bike. Not a Shadow. Let's say hmmmmm a Magna. And it's moving faster than the speed of sound. Do the same rules apply?:freak:

Magna's are fast.... well, except for the YELLOW ones:no:

[TinyUFB]

You learn that you go where you look, keep your feet on the pegs and how to turn on an exact spot.
Pegs

One manuever we do is square corners. We ride in pairs. For this one the pairs are further apart...bout 4 to 5 feet. At a specific point the rider on the outside turns a very sharp 90 turn into his partner. If done correctly, he will miss his partner by a foot. The inside partner also does a sharp 90 degree turn immediately following the outside turn so they end up paired up by the end of the turn. This is done 4 times to create a square. Then there is the FAN. All riders line up side by side and proceed down the field. At the middle the line splits in two and does a fan sweep. By the end of the sweep both sides are at the middle passing through each other. As soon as we get half way through the pass, we do 90 degree turns and proceed in opposite directions.

Little wheels is where we ride in pairs of two down the middle of the field. At the precise time each line breaks out and does a full circle and meets up with his partner. Again the pairing is tight, so when you finish your circle, you had better be accurate or you will collide with your partner. No room for error.

Tiny

[pegscraper]

Tiny bubbles is where we are riding in pairs and we split into two circles. We ride two circles then it changes into 2 figure 8's after which we pair up and continue on in the same direction we started.

[Shadow]

Very impressive!
I love the styling of your rides...

[TinyUFB]

Very impressive!
I love the styling of your rides...

It is fun and at times a little scary. Especially as your doing a weave and you hear the all too familiar "thud" sound as two riders collide.

Most of the pics we have are actually VCR Films which we cant post on here. The pic that Pegs posted was when we rode Uniformed. That meant that every bike had to be an exact match. Since then we have gone non-uniformed and this allows us to MOD our bikes as we wish without penalty.

TIny

[quietprofessional]

id love to see video of this shit. any place where i could catch any online clips of the stuff?

[HaChayalBoded]

Well doesnt this just suck, anyone else in NY besides me?

Oh and as for the Magna ciomment, I've been checking out a few in the past few weeks

[quietprofessional]

yeah, im from rochester

[HaChayalBoded]

nice bike quiet, I'll be up in yoru neck of the woods taking a look a a few bikes this week, know of anything in the neighborhood for sale?

[quietprofessional]

Are you looking for new or used? Either way you shoud check out " cycle stop". (if you come to richester) nice shop, more harleys than metrics, but a great selection of both.

[HaChayalBoded]

used