Fuel Octane Info

[YellowMan]

WHAT'S UP FREAKS ?!?!?!?! :wazzup:

On the Gas Prices thread,... You all got me thinking about my choice of Gasoline,... My buds here in Las Vegas got me using Supreme,... They even got me thinkin' Chevron is the best gas around,... I don't mind believing that because I used to be a Grease Monkey when I was a young man,... At a Chevron station of course,...

So Moderators,... Shadow Riders,... Non-Shadow riders,... What's your take on the subject of LOW versus HIGH octane in our bikes,... I'm curious what everybody's using,... If anybody has an official responce from Honda,... That would be a great,... From the horses mouth and all that,...

It's warming up here in Sin City,... Just came back from a cruise down Las Vegas Blvd,... I love cruising the Strip and laughing at the fat Hookers,... Too funny,...

Later my brothers,... YellowMan :rolleyes5

[Menace]

WHAT'S UP FREAKS ?!?!?!?! :wazzup:

On the Gas Prices thread,... You all got me thinking about my choice of Gasoline,... My buds here in Las Vegas got me using Supreme,... They even got me thinkin' Chevron is the best gas around,... I don't mind believing that because I used to be a Grease Monkey when I was a young man,... At a Chevron station of course,...

So Moderators,... Shadow Riders,... Non-Shadow riders,... What's your take on the subject of LOW versus HIGH octane in our bikes,... I'm curious what everybody's using,... If anybody has an official responce from Honda,... That would be a great,... From the horses mouth and all that,...

It's warming up here in Sin City,... Just came back from a cruise down Las Vegas Blvd,... I love cruising the Strip and laughing at the fat Hookers,... Too funny,...

Later my brothers,... YellowMan :rolleyes5
I use 87 in my bike which is the best by far. Keep in mind the 93 is crap compared to 87. The higher the octane rating the crappier the gas and it's more expensive. The higher octane fuel does not burn as well as lower octane fuel and lower octane like 87 will produce more power because of a cleaner faster burn. Keep in mind that when talking cars that you better read your owners manual. My Cobra requires high octane because of detonation or "knock" possibilities. Engine knock is when the fuel ignites before the spark hit it, or because of extreme temp or compression ratio. It is always best to use the lowest octane you can without getting into the danger of detonation.

For more info:
http://www.familycar.com/Classroom/fuel.htm
http://extension.usu.edu/files/factsheets/aska3.htm

[Shadow]

I copied this from a FAQ section of a Honda site...

All of our machines are designed to run on 87 or above pump octane. We recommend the use of 89 pump octane purchased from a major supplier (Mobil, Shell, Texaco, etc.). Higher octane gas is not needed and may sometimes cause storage problems.

[RAZOR]

i use the lowest octane that there is at the pump.i tried using a higher octane
once and my bike ran like shit,lost power and took forever to warm up.

[AirportFF]

I copied this from a FAQ section of a Honda site...

All of our machines are designed to run on 87 or above pump octane. We recommend the use of 89 pump octane purchased from a major supplier (Mobil, Shell, Texaco, etc.). Higher octane gas is not needed and may sometimes cause storage problems.


That's almost exactly word for word what I was told.

[Machinehead]

87 proof

I usually use that which is recommended in the owners manuals.

[Galager]

No need for premium gas in these bikes. 93 Octane is for use in high compression, turbocharged, and supercharged engines to prevent detonation/pre-combustion. It is more difficult to burn, which makes it ideal for those situations. There is no need for it in a low-tech, low compression engine like ours. I usually put in 87 or 89.

[Rheopipo]

OOOOOPS!! will change the gas I am using I was using 93 since day 1.... will change and post If i see any difference... my bike does take a lot of time to warm up...but she runs fine...maybe it is because I dont know better....

[YellowMan]

Hey Gang,...

I'm gonna E-mail my ridin' buddy and let him know what I've found out,... I'm switching to 87 from here on out,... If it's not right for the bike it's not right for me,... I'll be saving at least 20 cents a gallon as well,... Here in Las Vegas if Regular Unleaded is $1.19,... Mid-Grade is 10 cents more and Supreme is 20 cents more,...

As always,... I found out what I needed from my Shadow Riders,... Thanks for your input,... I said it once and I'll say it again,... In Cartmans sweetest voice,...

I LOVE YOU GUYS,... Sweet,... Later Y'all,... YellowMan

[SmokeShowin]

Hey Gang,...

I'm gonna E-mail my ridin' buddy and let him know what I've found out,... I'm switching to 87 from here on out,... If it's not right for the bike it's not right for me,... I'll be saving at least 20 cents a gallon as well,... Here in Las Vegas if Regular Unleaded is $1.19,... Mid-Grade is 10 cents more and Supreme is 20 cents more,...

As always,... I found out what I needed from my Shadow Riders,... Thanks for your input,... I said it once and I'll say it again,... In Cartmans sweetest voice,...

I LOVE YOU GUYS,... Sweet,... Later Y'all,... YellowMan

$1.19 for regular!!!

Damn bro, I'm movin' to Vegas! http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/cool17.gif

[M@Man]

$1.19 for regular!!!

Damn bro, I'm movin' to Vegas! http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/cool17.gif

That has to be a typo!, right?!?http://fool.exler.ru/sm/gaz.gif

[Mr.Sinister]

I been paying almost 2 bucks a gallon for supream ! I thought I was doing a good thing for my ride . Cheaper gas it is . Thanks for the info guys . I never knew .

[YellowMan]

OOOPS !!!!!!

I meant $2.19 a gallon,... I'm not very bright sometimes,... Sorry guys,...
YellowMan

[SmokeShowin]

OOOPS !!!!!!

I meant $2.19 a gallon,... I'm not very bright sometimes,... Sorry guys,...
YellowMan

On second thought. I'll stay here. $1.96

[M@Man]

On second thought. I'll stay here. $1.96

I think I'm gonna pack up the family and join you, it jumped to $2.04 today. http://www.websmileys.com/sm/sad/1381.gif

M@

[Joeba]

thanks for the info guys,I to have been running 93 also.I was told it was better for my ride.But now i know better and i am going to take the pepsi challenge and see what happens :drummer:

[HSGear]

I've been using 87 and getting far better mileage on my Sabre.

[Rheopipo]

Hey forgot to guive an update... since my post here I changed gas also... I notice that the motor gets hot quicker, about power I dont feel any noticable diference, but I am getting better milage with the 87 too.

[98 ShadowT]

Thanks everyone for passing along the fuel information. I will start using reg again. And will put some B-12 Chemtoll in bike to help carbs.
By the way, Portland-Gresham is now paying $2.39 Sunday PM and now $2.45 for regular on Monday PM.
Are they getting us or what. Not driving any hybrid car but keeping the bike on the ROAD.

[TinyUFB]

Most of the manufacturers are now coming out with statements recommending E10 for bikes. Even HD (who recommends high super octane) has issued a press release informing their riders that E10 is good, and is better for the environment. Since 89 is cheaper than 87, I have started using it, and found no difference in performance between 87 and 89. I have found a difference using super unleaded. Performance was worse instead of better.

Tiny

[SpiritofNY]

Just checked the Clymer service manual and they say that "detonation" can occur due to LOW octane fuel being used.

[gat803]

And their 100 % right.

Detonation CAN occur. Key word "CAN" detonate.

"CAN" in a high compression motor. "CAN" in a motor with very advanced timing. "CAN" in an extremely hot motor, or one under a heavy load. And also "CAN" in any one of a dozen other situations.

For the vast majority of the engines in the scoot's we most all ride, use the lowest octane you can find, that doesn't pre-ignite in your motor. Usually, that octane rating will be 87.

There is no extra benefit from premium fuel. It doesn't give more mileage, higher performance, or a cleaner engine.

gat

[Icemann]

Using a higher Octane is not going to help the performance of your bike. In fact it can dmage the bike by cuasing over compression or burn out your rings.
To better understand what octane is and how it works check out this link

http://theserviceadvisor.com/octane.htm

[cryin'wolf]

Menace is right use the lowest octane gasoline you can get away with. On a stock bike, with aftermarket pipes and rejetted carbs, 87 should do it for riders throughout most of the US and Canada. Most rejetted carbs tend to run rich at speed, (for lean out on deceleration see other posts) one benefit of this is the extra fuel acts as a coolant, which cools the combustion chamber as it atomizes. Riders in the southern US with stock jets and pipes may expierence detonation while sitting in traffic where intake temperatures can reach 130+ degrees, if you ride in these conditions, have advanced your ignition timing, or both run 89 or higher. Owners manuals recommendations vary on geographic location, Honda's sold in South Florida recommend 93 octane. As for my bike, I ran it on Chevron 93 Sunoco 97.

[Free Spirit]

I ran 93 in mine for about one tank when I first got it. The previous owner had installed a "performance" cam and said that is what he had been running. It ran like a striped-assed ape on the highway but took forever to warm up and had some hesitation on the low-end. I switched to 87 and have loved it! No noticeable loss of highway performance, quicker to warm up (even in the icy midwest) and lots of stop-light-ass-kickin take off power.

BTW... at the top of this thread... 1.19 / gal..... holy cheap ass gas.....

[barthel]

87 and never added no additives

[BamaKC]

All our thoughts on fuel will be changing when they really start forcing alchol based fuels our way.

[Wild Coyote]

I like alcohol!

[BamaKC]

So do I... just keep it out of my gas tank!

[cryin'wolf]

Please explain to me the benefit of Ethanol based fuels particularly E85, when it requires 29% more energy to mass produce than its useful coefficient. Take into account that the base energy for the electricity to operate the processing plants, and the raw fuel for the combines that harvest the corn, is fossil fuel. Tell me please, why this is a green alternative?

[TinyUFB]

Please explain to me the benefit of Ethanol based fuels particularly E85, when it requires 29% more energy to mass produce than its useful coefficient. Take into account that the base energy for the electricity to operate the processing plants, and the raw fuel for the combines that harvest the corn, is fossil fuel. Tell me please, why this is a green alternative?

Your absolutely correct. It isnt a green alternative. If gas prices hit $10 a gallon then it would have some benefits. Not only does it require 29% more energy to produce, but your fuel efficiency drops from 10 to as high as 30%. Check it out and see how your mileage is affected using E85. Any of the big engine manufacturers just laugh when you bring up E85. At present it is a politically correct fuel. So the media plays it up like it is a genuine solution.

All the same, they are working at getting more efficient results with a combination of special hybrid corn and processing systems. Eventually they will be able to produce large amounts of this fuel economically - BUT IT AINT THERE YET and it may take another 5 years of more before it ever occurs.

Nor is Hydrogen Fuel economical or clean. It has so many problems righjt now it may take a decade or more before it can become efficient.

Tiny

[cryin'wolf]

I agree on your assement of hydrogen fuel on the whole, but hydrogen is by its self is a clean fuel. The problem comes in when you account for where the H is coming from. The government and many other groups which seek to expand the hydrogen fuel cell, lead people to believe the hydrogen comes from water. It does not. It takes 3x the electrical energy to split H2O into H1 H1 O1 than H1's value. The hydrogen used from the Hydrogen fuel cell comes from a fossil fuel that needs to be replenshed, as the Hydrogen content is depleted. It is by far a more efficient means of turning a fossil fuel into linear distance, but still requires fossil fuel. By the way most free H1 H2 in our atmosphere comes from lightning, that ought to tell you about the energy needed to release it from water.

About the corn before we all jump on the E85 band wagon, shouldn't some one check the Farmers Almanac and see if an American Corn Famine isn't due for say the next thousand years or so? just a thought....

[TinyUFB]

I agree on your assement of hydrogen fuel on the whole, but hydrogen is by its self is a clean fuel. The problem comes in when you account for where the H is coming from. The government and many other groups which seek to expand the hydrogen fuel cell, lead people to believe the hydrogen comes from water. It does not. It takes 3x the electrical energy to split H2O into H1 H1 O1 than H1's value. The hydrogen used from the Hydrogen fuel cell comes from a fossil fuel that needs to be replenshed, as the Hydrogen content is depleted. It is by far a more efficient means of turning a fossil fuel into linear distance, but still requires fossil fuel. By the way most free H1 H2 in our atmosphere comes from lightning, that ought to tell you about the energy needed to release it from water.

About the corn before we all jump on the E85 band wagon, shouldn't some one check the Farmers Almanac and see if an American Corn Famine isn't due for say the next thousand years or so? just a thought....

Yes, your right. I did not mean to infer H was a pollutant. Just meant that it was not easy to produce, and the very production of it creates its own problems.

Tinyhbomb

[BamaKC]

There are none in respect to performance or mileage. Ehty fuels have lower emmisions than standard gas, but at a cost in performance.

Tree huggers have been dying to get this stuff in internal combustion engines because they see it as a means to force their thinking on the general public.

If I were to consider any performance enhancing fuel additive it would be acetone. This acts as a combustion accelerant via more rapid vaporization of the fuel. Test results have documented when used very sparingly this additive improves performance by increasing power output and reduces harmful emmisions.

Like I mentioned before, I'm still skeerd to try it on my vehicles but watching the research closely.

[YellowMan]

I never thought my little question would turn in to such a huge topic,... But I'm glad I brought it up,...

And again,... The $1.19 was a typo,... Get real,... You think Las Vegas would let gas go for that cheap,...

Y'all stay cool,... And safe,...

Yellowman

[cryin'wolf]

I blew up a Datsun 4 cylinder using acetone as an additive for a science project years ago. I don't recall how much I added, but it ran like hell for awhile then the motor gave. I never tore the motor apart, but I wrote the acetone off as an alternate fuel in my report.

[BamaKC]

That would have been one hell of a science project!!

They do like 2oz per 20 gallons....

Just do a google on it and you'll find a wealth of information.... most not all quite postive in nature.

[nibs75]

I have a dual fuel vehicle, E85 or unleaded. When gas prices where really high around here last year, I used it for a few weeks. As Tiny said, my efficiency dropped by about 14%. I also had to drive 12 miles round trip to the nearest station that sold E85. It just wasn't worth it... Living in Kansas, where we have plenty of corn fields, E85 is discuused all the time. I thought it was funny that in the largest city in Kansas, and the surrounding area, only 2-3 stations sold E85.

[BamaKC]

E85 is a fraud! Imposed by the tree huggers and farming interests. It is not in any way effecient. It is an alternative be it a bad one. Acetone is is the way to go. There to hydrogen is the path in my mind. E85 and other similar approches to energy independance are too problematic, cost too much, and do not provide acceptiable performance levels.

[fly_by]

$1.19 for regular!!!

Damn bro, I'm movin' to Vegas! http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/cool17.gif



Don't be slow or I'll run ove ya!!!!!!! That's over a buck a galon savings over J'ville!

[mphillip]

I think I will move there. Regular unleaded in Tennessee is 2.59/gallon at the moment. I would kill for those gas prices:grin3: ....

[biggin152]

Same in Tulsa, OK. 89 cotane is $2.59 right now, which I will now be runnin instead of the 93. Glad to see this discucssion, I think I will point others to this discussion that beleive 93 is the best. Good job guys! I had no idea.:thumbsup: I beleive I paid $2.93 yesterday for 93 octane.

[Paradox]

We found on our race bikes that formulation was better than octane. We found that 2 strokes respond better to higher octanes but our 4 strokes did not make big increases in performance compared to 112 octane fuel. 112 octane produced about the same amount of power as pump gas. We tried VP U4 which is about 86 octane but oxygenated to burn slow. We found a huge increase in power over the 112 C6 fuel. Granted that was special race gas, but there engines are designed to run on what ever you can get out of the pump. 89 octane from a reliable source would be fine. None of this was sophisticated testing just the same rider on the same closed course track on the same bike.

[jrod1970]

We found on our race bikes that formulation was better than octane. We found that 2 strokes respond better to higher octanes but our 4 strokes did not make big increases in performance compared to 112 octane fuel. 112 octane produced about the same amount of power as pump gas. We tried VP U4 which is about 86 octane but oxygenated to burn slow. We found a huge increase in power over the 112 C6 fuel. Granted that was special race gas, but there engines are designed to run on what ever you can get out of the pump. 89 octane from a reliable source would be fine. None of this was sophisticated testing just the same rider on the same closed course track on the same bike.the sad part about 2 strokes is the mure octane you use the more likley you will need a new top end rebuild, i have found that useing 101 gas in my bike maces it run hotter, i use the 86, my bike runs cooler, and better than 101,dont know why but it must be the desert or some damn thing:heh_heh:

[Paradox]

Not suprising since making more power makes more heat. Making more power is also harder on parts. I've got guys here that are going pro when they get old enough. They buy 4 bikes a year, 2 250's and 2 450's. They mod one of each and keep the other stock for the stock classes. Those bikes are maintained well but are clapped out at the end of the year they ride so hard and often. Most of these kids are home schooled so they can spend more time on the tracks.

[RAZOR]

WHAT DO YOU THINK OF PRUDUCTS LIKE THESE.

http://www.liquidhorsepower.com/octane-boosters.php

[jrod1970]

Not suprising since making more power makes more heat. Making more power is also harder on parts. I've got guys here that are going pro when they get old enough. They buy 4 bikes a year, 2 250's and 2 450's. They mod one of each and keep the other stock for the stock classes. Those bikes are maintained well but are clapped out at the end of the year they ride so hard and often. Most of these kids are home schooled so they can spend more time on the tracks.cool, i was thinking about getting a "dirty bike" but i'm so fucking http://scorpius.150m.com/master/smilie/nut.gif

[jrod1970]

WHAT DO YOU THINK OF PRUDUCTS LIKE THESE.

http://www.liquidhorsepower.com/octane-boosters.phpdont use that shit in you http://scorpius.150m.com/master/smilie/47knuck.jpgr

[Paradox]

WHAT DO YOU THINK OF PRUDUCTS LIKE THESE.

http://www.liquidhorsepower.com/octane-boosters.php


Are you running higher compression or forced induction or a little NO2? If not then why bother? If your not detonating on pump gas then run it, it's cheaper. There will be no real difference in the life of your engine. Super might theoretically have a more efficient burn but you would have to have sophisticated equipment to measure it. Best way would be to see if you got more mpg. But on such a small tank it would be hard to tell.

Bottom line is I could put lots of stuff in my store to sell and I'll sell you octane boosters all day if you want it. But I'll tell you straight up it's not relly worth it in a street engine. Modified engines and we talking a different proposition.

[jrod1970]

Are you running higher compression or forced induction or a little NO2? If not then why bother? If your not detonating on pump gas then run it, it's cheaper. There will be no real difference in the life of your engine. Super might theoretically have a more efficient burn but you would have to have sophisticated equipment to measure it. Best way would be to see if you got more mpg. But on such a small tank it would be hard to tell.

Bottom line is I could put lots of stuff in my store to sell and I'll sell you octane boosters all day if you want it. But I'll tell you straight up it's not relly worth it in a street engine. Modified engines and we talking a different proposition.you own/work in a bike shop? just wonderin................. http://scorpius.150m.com/master/smilie/thumb.gif

[Paradox]

you own/work in a bike shop? just wonderin................. http://scorpius.150m.com/master/smilie/thumb.gif

yup, I own Competitive Edge Racing
http://www.compedgeracing.com (http://www.compedgeracing.com)

[jrod1970]

yup, I own Competitive Edge Racing
http://www.compedgeracing.com (http://www.compedgeracing.com)what state? are yo familiar with the checkers desert riders, Max Switzer, Bill Hill ect????

[Paradox]

Nope I'm in Texas for now. I may be moving to the San Diego area soon though.

[jrod1970]

Nope I'm in Texas for now. I may be moving to the San Diego area soon though.so you are goin to bee a fun bike center employee! HAHAHA come to Vegas!!!!!!!! http://img1.ranchoweb.com/images/morganscorpion/usa2.gif

[jrod1970]

Ricky C. will be your boss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!http://img2.ranchoweb.com/images/morganscorpion/lo.gif http://img2.ranchoweb.com/images/morganscorpion/lo.gif!!!

[Paradox]

so you are goin to bee a fun bike center employee! HAHAHA come to Vegas!!!!!!!! http://img1.ranchoweb.com/images/morganscorpion/usa2.gif

Try again, They could not even think of touching my pay grade.

[carsonx4]

I initially used 91 octane until I read a thread with this same topic..I drive a 02 Honda Sabre...their comments were the same...due to being a low compression motor...alot of fuel is wasted...I switched to 87...saw an increase in mileage and engine performance...just my .02

[jrod1970]

I initially used 91 octane until I read a thread with this same topic..I drive a 02 Honda Sabre...their comments were the same...due to being a low compression motor...alot of fuel is wasted...I switched to 87...saw an increase in mileage and engine performance...just my .02my 1100 runs great on 91 but i have to admit,runs better on pump 87 dont know,my bike smokes harleys so who cares!....fuckoffnoob!!...welcome to the nuthouse!!:drink:

[Budgar]

goddamn, all these years...thanks for the heads-up. I just filled up with 87 this morning.

[dk's87]

WHAT'S UP FREAKS ?!?!?!?! :wazzup:

On the Gas Prices thread,... You all got me thinking about my choice of Gasoline,... My buds here in Las Vegas got me using Supreme,... They even got me thinkin' Chevron is the best gas around,... I don't mind believing that because I used to be a Grease Monkey when I was a young man,... At a Chevron station of course,...

So Moderators,... Shadow Riders,... Non-Shadow riders,... What's your take on the subject of LOW versus HIGH octane in our bikes,... I'm curious what everybody's using,... If anybody has an official responce from Honda,... That would be a great,... From the horses mouth and all that,...

It's warming up here in Sin City,... Just came back from a cruise down Las Vegas Blvd,... I love cruising the Strip and laughing at the fat Hookers,... Too funny,...

Later my brothers,... YellowMan :rolleyes5

I can tell you here in Milwaukee it doesn't matter because it is all corn piss! (ehtenol):furious2:

[Mudduck]

Wtf Ethonal In Milwaukee?

No Regular, That Sucks

<<----- Dammn tricycle:madani:

[jrod1970]

Wtf Ethonal In Milwaukee?

No Regular, That Sucks

<<----- Dammn tricycle:madani:

post 10 more and the trike goes byby......fon!!!!!!!!:thumbsup:

[Mudduck]

Thanks man, i was expecting the whole fuck off noob thing, but thats bull shit about the ethonal we have a summer and winter mix of that shit with our gas here in phoenix and it makes my truck and my bike run like shit. :knife:

[jrod1970]

Thanks man, i was expecting the whole fuck off noob thing, but thats bull shit about the ethonal we have a summer and winter mix of that shit with our gas here in phoenix and it makes my truck and my bike run like shit. :knife:

FUCK OFF NOOB!!!!
WELCOME TO SHADOWRIDERS!! YOU FEEL BETTER NOW

JROD phd IN NOOB BASHING!!!

[John]

10% Ethanol is standard at all the pumps around where I live. What effect does this have on my SS750?

[Mudduck]

Gay

[TOASTER]

out here in cali they tell us to use chevron 91 got 4000 miles on it used it from dat one . one time switch to cheap gas out here we call sand dabi or stop and rob it sucks so must crap in it fouled my plugs. my bike was poping spitting it was shiiitty.. but this is one account i do have shit luck sometimes?

[ageingrodder]

Looks like you've already made up your mind, but I'll throw on my 2 cents worth. I ride a 750 and I've always ran 87. My bike runs great and I get between 50 and 60 mpg, depending on how aggressive I am on the throttle. It appears not everyone feels the same way because the station attendents (we don't have self-serve here in Orygon) are always surprised and tell me most seem to want premium.

[O'Larry]

The book on my 04 Sabre calls for 87, but I used the premium in it for quite some time. I took someones advice and switched to regular and have noticed no difference in power nor in mileage. Go Figure! I know we are talking pennies here, but so? :cool3:

[O'Larry]

:no: For what it is worth, these "NOOBIE" bashers can't get to me, I been riding with groups like these for way too many years. If ya caint take the heat, then ya gottsa git the hell owt of the kitchen!!!!!! WOT?:jester:

[ARshadow]

when I bought my bike, the idiot stealer told me to use high octane..... The bike would not warm up and would die when I let off the throttle...even after it had been running for an hour!..... it even fouled out the plugs so I switched to NGK......and went down to 87 and she runs like a champ......I even had to turn down the idle.

[O'Larry]

My 04 Sabre ran good on premium, but I changed to regular (Unleaded) and I seem to have noticed an upswing on power and ease of starting. No loss of gas mileage for certain, maybe even up a little on that. Ride safe! :thumbsup:

[ekozy1]

re-visiting an old thread....

With the average national price of gas at $3.04 a gallon :pissed: , USE FUCKING 87!!!!!

I swear to god, the first damn day it takes me more than $10 to fill up my tank I am going to whip someone's ass.:assbeat:

[O'Larry]

Hey, ekozy1 (http://www.shadowriders.net/forums/member.php?u=2772), trust me, I know EXACTLY how you feel :furious2: !!!! Up here in the Great Northwest, we have been paying through the nose with blood for our gasoline. We scream, yell, write letters and all to no avail. None of the people in power gives one rats ass how we feel nor what our income levels are. After all, they are well healed and do not care. How to change this is the big question, and so far, I have no answers. :no:
O'Larry

[ekozy1]

Yeah, I don't know what to do. I hear about all this "Don't buy gas on Wednesdays" bullshit that people actually think will WORK. Maybe shit will change once we can get G.W.'s ass out of office. Things with Iraq will get fixed and maybe we'll get some crude out of it......wishful thinking.

Until then I'll just continue paying out of my ass for gas. Wish I worked close to home enough so that I could walk or ride a tricycle to work. Damn 30 minute drives to work.

[O'Larry]

Count your blessings on that 30 minute commute!:laugh4: My Brother-In-Law worked out of the Los Angeles area and his commute was a minimum of two hours. It was about a thirty mile trip one way!!!! I would have shot myself!!:bomb:
O'Larry

[ekozy1]

That calls for a home relocation. Unless he made enough money to offset those expensive fuel costs in which case it doesn't matter.

[O'Larry]

Naw, he was too damn tight to sell his home and move. He couldn't understand the price of gas was costing him an upgrade in homes!!!! He has since retired, and gone off the radar screen! Lucky me!
O'Larry :laugh4:

[Kycop34]

OK so this thread started when everyone was bitchin about gas being $1.99 or $2.09...we will be ale to look back next year when its $4>50 a gallon and wish for the $3>50 prices again!!

I was reading on MSN today and saw where in Europe its $7>50 a gallon with over half of that price being taxes...glad i'm in the USof A even if gas is breakin me.

[extricator]

I run nothing but mid-grade in all my gas rides. It is not good for our bikes to have the reg grade sitting around in them. The oxygen molecules that is added to the regular gas will screw up a carb a lot easier than the mid grade. It will also create detonation when it starts to go stale. I do not work for the bike industry but am a tech for the landscape and golf course industry. I have seen the toll that regular gas...especially stale regular gas that it takes on these carbs and engine components. Todays regular gasoline all comes from the same tanks reguardless of what mfg it is. Since september 11th it was mandated that all regular gasoline be made to military specs in case of a national disaster like 9-11. The mid-grade and super grades of gasoline are mfg specific. Exxon, Shell, Luke Oil, or any other mfg adds their own additives to their fuels like detergents, benzine, stabilizers and what ever. I just spent a two days in a seminar put on by one of our manufaturers and they had a fuel rep there to explain it all to us. My bikes, mowers, and generators will never see regular fuel in them. You want to try something cool and have the money to blow???? Take 30 day old regular gasoline/oil mix in an unsealed container and 30 day old 89 octane gasoline/oil mix in an unsealed container and put them into two brand new Stratocharged 2 cycle engines and run a few tanks in them at full throttle then pull the jugs off of the motors....you will see that the regular fuel that is 30 days old will severly discolor the piston...cylinder...and might even have stuck the rings and show signs of detonation. The 89 octane will show considerably less damage. Gasoline starts to break down after 30 days in an unsealed fuel can. Thanks to the EPA the newer engines are running leaner and leaner and the regular grade fuel is not up to the task....

[duck4x403]

ive been using 91 octane.....any one else use it?

[mustangman915l]

ive been using 91 octane.....any one else use it?

FUCK OFF NOOB!

i just want everyone to know that duck hasnt been properly hazed yet and that im the first to say this!

haha reg

[O'Larry]

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
O'Larry

[Silver Shadow]

Just a quick thought on Octane.

The octane number in it simplest description is the rate of burn of the fuel. A Higher number means a slower burn and a Lower number means a faster burn rate. The faster the burn rate the more difficult it is for a motor to transfer the explosion into mechanical energy.

A very low octane number (85 OR LOWER) means that a fast bang happens everytime your cylinder fires which is like hitting the top of your piston with a hammer really hard. This of course pushes the piston down and moves you down the road. When you hear a motor pinging, you are actually hearing the result of a low octane fuel poorly timed in the motor and the ping is the sound of that explosion hitting the piston. (VERY DAMAGING) Quite frankly anything less then 89 doesnt belong in anything except an old worn out lawnmower, but this is my very personal opinion and NOT ONE THAT I WOULD EVER PUSH ON ANYONE ELSE.

A very high octane number (100 OR HIGHER) means that the fuel burns very slowly and this can also be hard for a motor to use efficiently, because if the fuel is not yet burned when the piston reaches BDC then it is too late to use as energy and the rest of the expansion goes out the pipes in a ball of fire (Example of this is a TOP FUEL DRAGSTER and its 10 foot flames coming out the pipes for the full qaurter mile :-)) Fun to watch, but incredibly inefficient. (Of course when your goal is producing 10,000 HP for 4 seconds, who cares about efficiency :-)) This is also why it is important to use MORE TIMING ADVANCE with high octane fuels, so that the burn starts earlier and has a chance to get used up before the piston bottoms out.

The perfect combination is different of course for every motor. When your octane rating matches your motor properly, it is like a large fist pushing the piston down from top to bottom rather then a hammer smacking it and the result is smooth acceleration and a higher percentage of the fuel being used in the process. Better mileage and smoother power.

In a stock motor there is no reason to use anything but the manuals recomendation.

However, In a motor with ANY amount of modification to the timing, camshaft, valves or compression. You will want to use at least one grade higher if not two grades higher in the octane/qaulity of your fuel in order to take advantage of the modifcations as well as avoid any sustained damage to your motor.

Of course this is just my TWO cents worth :-) Take it for what it is worth :-)

[O'Larry]

Nice write-up Silver, thanks for the time and effort. Most of our Shads only require (if they are not worked on, and according to the manual) 86 or higher. I moved down from the premium to regular (86) and have not had any discernible changes in mileage nor power.
Thanks again!
O'Larry

[Silver Shadow]

Well Then Thanks Man for the Thanks :-) :-)

And good to know on the octance :-) I am trying to find the original post on the timing mod as I am really interested getting some more initial advance in my bike as soon as I can :-) I would really like to get as much timing out of her as I can, I have a few crazy ideas in store for the future and I am going to need a bunch of advance to pull it off :-)

[O'Larry]

Somehow I am certain that the advance of advice will come flying your way. Whether you like it or not----HAHAHAHAHA
O'Larry :thumbsup: :lol:

[YO MUDA]

I'll tell ya what O'Larry. That Silver Shadow is one smart brutha. I cant even speel half of those woods.

[O'Larry]

Aint not gotts no klue whut yer a tawken bowt! Butt aint et a bunches of funn?:lol:

[YO MUDA]

Yeppers geterdun.

[Silver Shadow]

Mostly what I do is just get all liquered up and then just make shit up til it sounds halfway beleifable LOL :-))

[O'Larry]

ROTFLMAO!!
O'Larry :lol:

[YO MUDA]

Works for me.:happy:

[O'Larry]

I have also been accused of libation to the point of inebriation!
ROTFLMAO!
O'Larry

[YO MUDA]

What? Your a fan of Leeberatche?

[Silver Shadow]

YO MUDA - - - "What? Your a fan of Leeberatche?"


"LMAOROFL" Oh my gosh dude that caught me so off gaurd, I almost laughed myself off my chair.

These other dudes at work are looking at me like I lost my freaking mind :-)


"Leeberatche" - LMAO - That is some seriously funny stuff :-)

[O'Larry]

Hell, even my parents did not watch "Rubbercrotchy"!!!!!!
O'Larry ;-)

[twistedcrankcammer]

Just a quick thought on Octane.

The octane number in it simplest description is the rate of burn of the fuel. A Higher number means a slower burn and a Lower number means a faster burn rate. The faster the burn rate the more difficult it is for a motor to transfer the explosion into mechanical energy.

A very low octane number (85 OR LOWER) means that a fast bang happens everytime your cylinder fires which is like hitting the top of your piston with a hammer really hard. This of course pushes the piston down and moves you down the road. When you hear a motor pinging, you are actually hearing the result of a low octane fuel poorly timed in the motor and the ping is the sound of that explosion hitting the piston. (VERY DAMAGING) Quite frankly anything less then 89 doesnt belong in anything except an old worn out lawnmower, but this is my very personal opinion and NOT ONE THAT I WOULD EVER PUSH ON ANYONE ELSE.

A very high octane number (100 OR HIGHER) means that the fuel burns very slowly and this can also be hard for a motor to use efficiently, because if the fuel is not yet burned when the piston reaches BDC then it is too late to use as energy and the rest of the expansion goes out the pipes in a ball of fire (Example of this is a TOP FUEL DRAGSTER and its 10 foot flames coming out the pipes for the full qaurter mile :-)) Fun to watch, but incredibly inefficient. (Of course when your goal is producing 10,000 HP for 4 seconds, who cares about efficiency :-)) This is also why it is important to use MORE TIMING ADVANCE with high octane fuels, so that the burn starts earlier and has a chance to get used up before the piston bottoms out.

The perfect combination is different of course for every motor. When your octane rating matches your motor properly, it is like a large fist pushing the piston down from top to bottom rather then a hammer smacking it and the result is smooth acceleration and a higher percentage of the fuel being used in the process. Better mileage and smoother power.

In a stock motor there is no reason to use anything but the manuals recomendation.

However, In a motor with ANY amount of modification to the timing, camshaft, valves or compression. You will want to use at least one grade higher if not two grades higher in the octane/qaulity of your fuel in order to take advantage of the modifcations as well as avoid any sustained damage to your motor.

Of course this is just my TWO cents worth :-) Take it for what it is worth :-)






What mods are you contemplating??

I agree with most of what you said with a few minor exceptions:

Lower octaine fuel burns faster yet less completely. A good anology woyld be smokeless powder vs: black powder. The smokeless burns slower, yet more completely, and pushes the bullet faster than black powder ie better energy transfer.

The minor things I don't agree with are:

1) "Quite frankly anything less than 89 octaine doesn't belong in anything but a worn out lawn mower,

My answer; The V-Max makes alot more power then the Shadow, yet runs best on 83 octaine per the instruction manual and per my own experience. This has to do with stroke. A longer stroke takes more octaine then a short stroke engine.

2) Nitromethaine burns extremely slow, yet the reason for the flames is that since it carries its own oxygen, it always detonates as soon as the mixture is lean enough, so top fuelers blow enogh liquid Nitromethaine through the engine that it is still burning and detonation happens in the exhaust pipes.

3) "In a motor with any ammount of modification to the timing, camshaft valves or compression, you will want to use 1 grade higher if not two grades higher.

My Answer; Mostly true to an extent, but not always and does not take into account for those with limited understanding of the combustion process. If I reduce compression, it is a change in compression, but obviously, I do not need more octaine. I personally have ported and polished V-Max heads with larger valves, larger cams, aftermarket exhaust, 39mm flat slide FCR Keihin carbs, Dana Mini coils and a Dana 3000 ignition module, but with stock internals I did not have to change fuel or timing unless I ran my nitrous.

Roger

[Ole Ed]

Found this and had to add.......My manual reads 91 or higher......Had to actually dig it out (thought I'd never find it) and read it.....07 SS .....
I run 87 in it and have never experienced any knocking or pinging......
My 09 Suzi-q c50t calls for 91 or higher also......I burn 87 in it also.

[ageingrodder]

Found this and had to add.......My manual reads 91 or higher......Had to actually dig it out (thought I'd never find it) and read it.....07 SS .....
I run 87 in it and have never experienced any knocking or pinging......
My 09 Suzi-q c50t calls for 91 or higher also......I burn 87 in it also.

Are you riding a 750 SS or an 1100? The manual for my 2001 750 SS says use an octane of 86 or higher.:rolleyes3

[Ole Ed]

Are you riding a 750 SS or an 1100? The manual for my 2001 750 SS says use an octane of 86 or higher.:rolleyes3



07 SS 750 DC............Had a Rebel that said 91 or higher too and it didnt like 87 at all....It was an 05......Wasnt the minimum octane rating I was pointing out, it was the OR HIGHER........

[Ziggy]

What about older bikes? I see that M@man uses regular but my 86 vt700c (45k miles) seems to run a little better on 91 (live in kansas, no 93 here). I recently took a 260 mile trip down to southeast missouri and the one time i stopped and put 89 in. It seemed to run worse. My carbs might need to get readjusted but I'm stickin with my premium.

[kaffe]

after reading this post I switched to 89 from premium and noticed the bike warmed up faster and had more power...some of that could be due to the Carb syc. but I am going with 89. thanks you all for the info.

[Doc]

Often wondered about that. Good info. Thanks!

[michael_jnel]

Try some diesel it has a rating of between 15-25.

[Mindmymanners]

$1.19 for regular!!!

Damn bro, I'm movin' to Vegas! http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/cool17.gif

right...?
that's what i'm sayin...! hahah

[fastssmonte]

05 prices look good right now....$1.19 a gallon....

[SS Bill]

Are you riding a 750 SS or an 1100? The manual for my 2001 750 SS says use an octane of 86 or higher.:rolleyes3

My manual for my 2007 Shadow Spirit 750dc also says to use 86 or highjer.

[hemijeep1]

While removing some terrible chrome that the previous owner installed, i removed the battery cover. On the inside is a service reference sticker. For my 99 ACE 750 it says run 91 minimum. The bike hates exxon fuel no matter what grade. My personal results are best when I run sunoco 93.

[Dallas]

There are none in respect to performance or mileage. Ehty fuels have lower emmisions than standard gas, but at a cost in performance.

Tree huggers have been dying to get this stuff in internal combustion engines because they see it as a means to force their thinking on the general public.

If I were to consider any performance enhancing fuel additive it would be acetone. This acts as a combustion accelerant via more rapid vaporization of the fuel. Test results have documented when used very sparingly this additive improves performance by increasing power output and reduces harmful emmisions.

Like I mentioned before, I'm still skeerd to try it on my vehicles but watching the research closely. Has anyone tried the acetone in their shadow?

[Duffmyver]

Over here in Europe we only get 95 and 98 octane fuel, I can run bike on both without any noticable difference (cept the price). You guys would luv our fuel prices though the "cheap" stuff is about 6-7 euros a gallon (or about $10-$11), So praise your lucky stars that you guys dont get raped up the wazzoo by the taxman at every tankstop.

[ageingrodder]

Well, we aren't there yet, but we sure will be with the current liberals in charge. :thumbsdow

[Duffmyver]

well at least fuel is (still) at a better price than here lol.

[CoolBreeze]

Go with the less expensive lower octane. You have a low compression engine. Higher ones need the higher octane. Yours doesn't.

[hemijeep1]

on my 99 shadow ace there is a performance spec sheet on the inside of the left battery cover...it says to run a minimum of 92 in it, I will only run sunoco or shell none of that shitty exxon fuel.

[CoolBreeze]

No I don't have a picture on here as most call me a NOOB.. they aught to respect their edlers....LOL I know my shit..
I can't use the Sheel nitrogenated gas with my engine.. I am running 10/1 compression in my engine and I definetely notice a power loss. I use Sunoco when I can find it. I carry a bottle of rocket fuel with me just in case...
You doing any long distance touring this summer?

[sid]

i use the lowest grade and i put some star-tron in,,,just a little every other fill up

[SundayForever]

No need for premium gas in these bikes. 93 Octane is for use in high compression, turbocharged, and supercharged engines to prevent detonation/pre-combustion. It is more difficult to burn, which makes it ideal for those situations. There is no need for it in a low-tech, low compression engine like ours. I usually put in 87 or 89.

[coioteix]

Man it's noit the octane, iut's the gasoline quality. Ethanol kills small engines. A lot of bikes won't hardly run on regular. Fuel injection deals w/ these impurities alot better than carburetion, why I don't know. I just know that ethanol was the worst idea in history, and thats it. Theres no reason to babble over price, since any 1100 or so I know of you can fill for $10-$12 and ride to hell and back. The long way.

[lifeofchaos13]

Ive read so many posts on this subject. Ive looked in the manual. There are great pros for both sides. I have tested a full tank at different octanes. I have decided that my bike 07 vt750dcb, jetted w/ HC, runs best on Mid Grade ie. 89 octane. I noticed a difference in performance when running higher octane fuel. My one cavet is that I refuse to put Arco gas in my bike. Exxon or Moble fuel only, with maybe a Shell thrown in there once in a while.

My question is has anyone found any additives that they swear by that make a difference?

[EddieMac]

I run 87 in mine from the no name cheepo station down the street. I drop a couple of ounces of Sea Foam in once a month the keep the carb innards clean. Had the float bowl off about a month ago to do a rejet and found it all clean and shiny. Runs like a banshee.

All gas comes from the same tanks at the end of the pipe line. Additives for the individual companies are added to the tanker trucks prior to filling. As far as I'm concerned, gas is gas. It's all the same shit. I'm more worried about how clean the stations tanks are than what hype the gas companies are trying to sell me.

Peace y'all!

[leesa]

So Moderators,... Shadow Riders,... Non-Shadow riders,... What's your take on the subject of LOW versus HIGH octane in our bikes,... I'm curious what everybody's using,... If anybody has an official responce from Honda,... That would be a great,... From the horses mouth and all that,... t is more difficult to burn, which makes it ideal for those situations. There is no need for it in a low-tech, low compression engine like ours. I usually put in 87 or 89.

[mcvierh]

From the horses mouth leesa.....the Honda owners manual (mine at any rate, I've yet to read all of them) recommends 87.

[obnoxious bastard]

well i run 91 from mobil or shell, ive tried running 87 and 89 in her but she always bitches at me when im being cheap. lol

[crittar]

i use the lowest octane that there is at the pump.i tried using a higher octane
once and my bike ran like shit,lost power and took forever to warm up.

i like the pic lol:rolleyes3

[crittar]

87 or 89 mostly 87 ,,,,no reason to pay more

[shorty]

We're kinda all over the board on this one, aren't we? LOL I run Premium... I figure as little gas as she sips, Shorty gets the best... :-)

Shit, will that ... gasp ... void my warranty?

Probably just the female in me talking, probably has no bearing on realty, me being a lil 'slow' ... wink, wink ... and all that.......

[Duffmyver]

Anyone who thinks higher octane gas burns worse needs to go get some science classes. Higher octane ignites faster and more violently than lower does, only to note significant difference 2 cilinders aint enough.
If you have a v6, v8 or something similar you will notice a significant difference.
Also if you wanna clean the guts of your ride (not dependant on amount of cilinders) you will see a difference, just by colouration.
Lower octane fuels are dirtier when ignited leaving more residue on the engine parts, and in the atmosphere.
Anyone dont believe me just wiki it, higher octanes bad for wallet but good for "go go" & if ya wanna be green (even just a lil):jamming:

[shadow_walker_88]

every once in a while i'll reward the ol' girl with a tank of 110 for being a well behaved bitch and not give'n me any trouble and running perfectly (who am i kidding its a honda)

then again i like the smell , so i guess it could considered a guilty pleasure too , but usually its 92/93

[Kitulu]

I just found an ethanol free station close to the house, so I took the cage down there with my three 5-gal cans to fill them up with 87...should keep the bike running nice for a month or so.

[EddieMac]

Anyone who thinks higher octane gas burns worse needs to go get some science classes. Higher octane ignites faster and more violently than lower does, only to note significant difference 2 cilinders aint enough.
If you have a v6, v8 or something similar you will notice a significant difference.
Also if you wanna clean the guts of your ride (not dependant on amount of cilinders) you will see a difference, just by colouration.
Lower octane fuels are dirtier when ignited leaving more residue on the engine parts, and in the atmosphere.
Anyone dont believe me just wiki it, higher octanes bad for wallet but good for "go go" & if ya wanna be green (even just a lil):jamming:

Do your homework. Octane is a burn inhibitor to prevent spark knock in higher compression engines. Octane slows the burn not the other way around. Buy quality fuel and 87 burns just as clean as high test. Been running 87 since new, checked my exhaust valves when I changed exhausts, clean as a whistle.

[scooterrider]

I just found an ethanol free station close to the house, so I took the cage down there with my three 5-gal cans to fill them up with 87...should keep the bike running nice for a month or so.


There's 1 place in the whole county that has ethanol free fuel around here and it's a bait/boat shop.
I like the real stuff but it's over 20 miles away!

I use 87,,

Find ethanol free gas here,,
http://www.buyrealgas.com/

Bob

[shorty]

Do your homework. Octane is a burn inhibitor to prevent spark knock in higher compression engines. Octane slows the burn not the other way around. Buy quality fuel and 87 burns just as clean as high test. Been running 87 since new, checked my exhaust valves when I changed exhausts, clean as a whistle.

Thank you Eddie... I ran the Premium thinking more was better, but if it's pointless and your check showed clean results, that's good enough for me.

[EddieMac]

No problem Shorty. A lot folks figure that since most high performance engines run high test that the higher octane makes them faster. Save the money for something more important, like chrome!

Ride safe!