Why machine front axle for 21" HD swap?

[Camo]

I'm just wondering why the recommended solution for a 21" HD front wheel swap is to machine the stock 20mm axle down to 3/4"? Why not just install the correct bearings for the 20mm axle in the HD wheel? Am I missing something?
Seems way easier and more logical to me... :idea2:

[mcvierh]

Yes.

[mavrick_69_us]

I'm just wondering why the recommended solution for a 21" HD front wheel swap is to machine the stock 20mm axle down to 3/4"? Why not just install the correct bearings for the 20mm axle in the HD wheel? Am I missing something?
Seems way easier and more logical to me... :idea2:

To each his own I guess. I swapped bearings in my rear harley swap still running 20mm axle. Kinda lucked out, Victory's rear wheel bearings have the same dimensions as H.D. except they run 20mm axles. It took a little searching to find out.

[Camo]

Yes.

Yes, I'm missing something? Please enlighten me...

[mavrick_69_us]

Yes, I'm missing something? Please enlighten me...

I'm sure if you stick around a few boys will chime in and "enlighten you".

[Camo]

I'll stick around. Not trying to be a smart a$$. Just trying to see if this is feasible for my 1100 since everything I find is a 750 specific. I've been thinking about the swap a lot and a bearing swap is something I can handle and do in my garage. I don't have a lathe and turning down the axle is irreversible plus I'm dependent on shop for.

NOOB anxiously anticipating the reasons why this doesn't work as I've been racking my brain over it...

[mavrick_69_us]

I'll stick around. Not trying to be a smart a$$. Just trying to see if this is feasible for my 1100 since everything I find is a 750 specific. I've been thinking about the swap a lot and a bearing swap is something I can handle and do in my garage. I don't have a lathe and turning down the axle is irreversible plus I'm dependent on shop for.

NOOB anxiously anticipating the reasons why this doesn't work as I've been racking my brain over it...

Buy yourself a harley 21 I'd recommend a 2000 and up, pull the bearings and see what you have. Measure the O.D and width, then find one with a 20mm I.D. Or just by another axle for 10-15 bucks and pay 15-20 bucks to have it turned down. I'm not trying to be a smartass either, I used a H.D. front end already had 3/4" axle.

[mcvierh]

Yes, I'm missing something? Please enlighten me...

metric and SAE don't cross over.....kinda like trying to put a square peg in a round hole., while it's true that you can use a sledgehammer and force it....you get the idea. Actually you can use a lathe and with a little bit of turning your once square peg will now work in a round hole. If it was as simple as you suggested and matching a bearing to work with that HD hub to the SS shaft, don't you think some dumb fuck riding a Shadow would have figured it out ???

[Doc_Shadow]

Will a Harley axle not fit the forks? Too short?

[Doc_Shadow]

Also, is a shadow rotor the same size as Harley front rotors?

[Camo]

metric and SAE don't cross over.....kinda like trying to put a square peg in a round hole., while it's true that you can use a sledgehammer and force it....you get the idea. Actually you can use a lathe and with a little bit of turning your once square peg will now work in a round hole. If it was as simple as you suggested and matching a bearing to work with that HD hub to the SS shaft, don't you think some dumb fuck riding a Shadow would have figured it out ???

With all due respect, not true. I guess I'm the dumb fuck that's going to figure it out.

I already have a 2000 FXST wheel with the sealed bearings. I also have the rotor and speedo drive figured out. As far as SAE vs metric the HD bearings are actually 52mm OD and 21mm wide/deep. Therefore a 20mm ID x 52 OD x 21mm wide bearing is the ticket (which I have found and are on they way but back ordered for 2-3 weeks). I'm going to need to cut spacers for each side plus a section for the inside of the wheel between the two bearings. I'm also guessing I may need to shim the caliper.

So, I'm pretty dang sure I have it figured out with no machining necessary and no need to shim one side of the axle for the .03" if the axle were turned down. I mostly posted this to 1) see if anyone had done this already and 2) if someone has done it see if there's something I haven't thought of. From the limited knowledge I have of other models this should work on the 1100 line, 750 line as well as the VTX1300's. I believe the VTX1300's actually already use a 20x52x15 bearing in the stock wheel so it's almost a direct swap for them. I read that one VTX guy just swapped the 15mm deep bearings into the HD wheel. I'd rather have the bearing fully seated to the 21mm depth though. That extra 6mm would make me a bit nervous.

So there you have it. Sorry so long winded. I guess I'll let everyone know how it turns out if anyone is interested?

[mcvierh]

When I said SAE to Metric this is what I meant, the axle is simple, it needs to be turned down by a machine shop from our OEM metric of .78” size to ,75” (3/4 ) …(see pic below from The Spirit Chop shop
10858
you will have to shim the right side with 22-24gauge metal, which is the difference between the stock 20mm (.782") axle and what you turned .75", about .03".
Same thing for the rotor….. left or right side dont matter, front and back does. The rotor also need be 11.5" to fit our our OEM brake, need to be same year as the wheel (2000 and up or 1999 and down) and have RECESSED holes that are better for a close tolerances). Also, Rotor: left or right side dont matter, front and back does...again, match up year models but make sure its for the front buy the recessed bolts from the same company as the rotor(Bolts-rotor: need to be buttonheads, torx will not work...also, do not order the Colony buttonhead chrome bolt/nut kit, its torx). <O:p</O:p

[mcvierh]

You can also take it one step further I.E use your front speedo: From the spirit Chop Shop The wheel swap is pretty straight forward. Once again, make sure the rotor matches the year of the wheel.
Assuming you have already removed the old wheel, put the axle back into the fork lowers to it's original position with the speedo drive on it. Put the speedo drive over against the left fork where it normally would ride. I used a thin flat file to score the axle at the inside edge of the speedo drive. This is the point that you need to turn the axle down to .75". Leave the axle .78" where the speedo drive will ride.
While you are at the machine shop, ask the nice machinist to make you a spacer 1 3/8" long with an ID of .75". Dont take that as gospel, you will have to fit up your wheel, and center it, and have your spacer made accordingly. My speedo drive is 1 3/8" wide, and a matching spacer on the other side put it dead center of the forks.
Next issue....the speedo drive ring (SDR) Pry the dust seal out of the old wheel, and the SDR will pop right out. It will have 2 tabs on the outside that are bent at a 90* angle. Bend them so that they are flat with the ring. I used a ball peen hammer and a vise. Next, lay the ring on the center hub of your new wheel, center it, and mark the location of the two outer tabs. Take a rotary tool, and grind 2 grooves in the hub, so that the SDR will set in the hub, and the tabs will "lock" the SDR in position. There will be too much metal on the SDR to let your new rotor fit over the hub, so you will have to grind a little bit off of the tabs. If you need to, you can tack the ring in with a welder, or JB weld. You are now ready to mount up your wheel.
You will need some shim stock for the right side fork tube. you need .03" shim = 2 layers of beer can aluminum. I got some shim stock that was .016" bronze. You will probably need a helping hand to keep the shim stock in the fork tube. I bought new shoulder bolts 2 1/4" long for the brake caliper, and had to shave a little off of 3/4" chrome spacers to shim the caliper out there.

[mcvierh]

The whole point for turning the OEM axle is so that you can now use any HD front wheel instead of having to find a wheel and now having to find bearings for that wheel and when you change to another wheel having to do bearings all over again.
Def keep us posted on your progress swapping out bearings and whatever.......

[mavrick_69_us]

With all due respect, not true. I guess I'm the dumb fuck that's going to figure it out.

I already have a 2000 FXST wheel with the sealed bearings. I also have the rotor and speedo drive figured out. As far as SAE vs metric the HD bearings are actually 52mm OD and 21mm wide/deep. Therefore a 20mm ID x 52 OD x 21mm wide bearing is the ticket (which I have found and are on they way but back ordered for 2-3 weeks). I'm going to need to cut spacers for each side plus a section for the inside of the wheel between the two bearings. I'm also guessing I may need to shim the caliper.

So, I'm pretty dang sure I have it figured out with no machining necessary and no need to shim one side of the axle for the .03" if the axle were turned down. I mostly posted this to 1) see if anyone had done this already and 2) if someone has done it see if there's something I haven't thought of. From the limited knowledge I have of other models this should work on the 1100 line, 750 line as well as the VTX1300's. I believe the VTX1300's actually already use a 20x52x15 bearing in the stock wheel so it's almost a direct swap for them. I read that one VTX guy just swapped the 15mm deep bearings into the HD wheel. I'd rather have the bearing fully seated to the 21mm depth though. That extra 6mm would make me a bit nervous.

So there you have it. Sorry so long winded. I guess I'll let everyone know how it turns out if anyone is interested?


The Victory bikes use a 20mmx52mmx15mm which is what I needed for rear. HD was 25mmx52mmx15mm. The reason I swapped bearings is I bought a used wheel and thought I'd start fresh for piece of mind, plus ID was too big. If clearance becomes an issue mounting speedo, I think you could get away with 15mm wide "fully" seated to give you some room. The inner bearing spacer between bearings has a min-max length its a pretty tight tolerance. HD will have this info in service manual for year of wheel you are using. I know you can just measure the one that was in it for length, but there is not much give or take here. If too long or short there will be pressure on bearings which will cause excessive wear or lock up. Post some pics when done, later.

[firefighter212]

reason i chose to turn axle was the fact of using harley rear caliper(which has 3/4 hole)and just the fact of accessibility to the 3/4 bearings.I'm not running speedo right now,looking for magnetic pick-up and moving speedo from tank to bars when i stretch tank.

[slowc10]

this is something im wanting to try but im nervous as hell that ill fuck it up somehow. it sounds easy enough from reading on here if i can find a wheel and rotor at the swapmeet i might try it this spring

[firefighter212]

go to k.c. international e-bay store.i got both rims,80 spoke,both rotors and caliper for less than 600.00 bucks.bigarmzz said i got a hell of a deal on that set up.I love the set up.

[Camo]

Hey slowc10, sounds like you're not in a hurry but just wanted to let you know that i'm still gathering parts to attempt this. Got my rotor on the way and just ordered bearings and seals today (other bearings are now back ordered till April and I think this other route I'm going will work better anyway. I'm trying to make this a straight forward bolt on with no need for any machining. It's ambitious and seems like it will work on paper but that doesn't always transfer to real world. I'll definitely keep everyone updated. If it works well I might put together a kit.

If anyone knows where I can order or obtain some 20mm ID x 28mm OD aluminum or steel tubing to cut spacers I'd really appreciate a lead.

[mavrick_69_us]

Hey slowc10, sounds like you're not in a hurry but just wanted to let you know that i'm still gathering parts to attempt this. Got my rotor on the way and just ordered bearings and seals today (other bearings are now back ordered till April and I think this other route I'm going will work better anyway. I'm trying to make this a straight forward bolt on with no need for any machining. It's ambitious and seems like it will work on paper but that doesn't always transfer to real world. I'll definitely keep everyone updated. If it works well I might put together a kit.

If anyone knows where I can order or obtain some 20mm ID x 28mm OD aluminum or steel tubing to cut spacers I'd really appreciate a lead.

Victory Motorcycles use 20mm axle. I swap bearings in my H.D. rear used the innerbearing spacer from a victory.

http://www.actionsportspolaris.com/ecbasket.asp?fveh=11344&section=481538&year=2008&make=Victory&model=V08CB26/CD26/PB26%20KINGPIN/KINGPIN%208%20BALL/KINGPIN%20TOUR%20ALL%20OPTION&category=Motorcycles&sid=09396784X2K4K2010J12I15I58JAMQ1935R0

[Camo]

Thanks for the tip Mav. I'll look into it. I also discovered that the Victory's use 20mm axles from my research. Too bad the Victory front rotor is only a 300mm or I was thinking about going with Victory front 21". Seems like it might work for the 750s though running the 296mm front rotor. I'll take a look at the spacers.

[mavrick_69_us]

I'd take some measurements, prob could make a relocator bracket for front caliper. Take a look at some hd front caliper brackets to get some ideas.


Here's a link to a Drag Specialties front caliper adapter for using a stock caliper for 11.5 rotor to a 13" rotor. I understand this is not what you are doing, but could give you an idea for a caliper relocating bracket. Then you could use the victory front wheel and rotor.


http://www.dragspecialties.com/fatbook/1/50/7744473

[Camo]

This swap is really starting to fucking piss me off. Nothing will go right and I'm really pissed off at myself for not thinking far enough ahead before I keep throwing money at this thing that seems like it is never going to work.

My wheel is too fucking wide! I don't know what the hell is up but I either have the wrong damn wheel or my fork width is less than the 750s that have done this swap (Im attempting this on a 1992 VT1100C). So, I read on the Spirit Chop Shop two different things. One says I need a Wide Glide wheel and the other says I need a Narrow Glide wheel. The wheel I have is off of a 2002 FXST and is a 21x2.15. The hub width on my stock wheel is approx 6". The hub width on the HD wheel is approx 6 9/16". The HD wheel won't even fit between my fork legs with the stock speedo drive let alone need any spacer. What the fuck and I doing wrong? Are the 750 legs that much wider or do I just have the wrong wheel?

[Camo]

I think I answered my own question. I'm pretty damn sure I have the wrong wheel. So why the fuck does this say I need a Wide Glide wheel???

http://www.spiritchopshop.com/mod%20webpages/21_inch_Conversion.htm

[mavrick_69_us]

Measure center to center of down tubes on top tree, and between fork lowers where axle goes through. I have a 750 front end off of bike with no wheel, I'll measure same.

[Twisted member]

Ya you need a sportster 21 inch wheel with the narrow hub to run the speedo drive , wide glides and the softails have the wide hubs , and there rottors sit out farther , Im running a 03 sportster 21 on mine , but I had my axle milled down as well , but ended up taking my right lower leg in and having a alum sleeve made and molded to my leg insted of shimming it , you cant even tell , but our shop has a guy here in springfield ohio we use and does it for us for almost noithing , I also got lucky and bought my wheel new in the box still for $60 from my shop , hope all works out for you ,

[Camo]

Thanks for all of your help Maverick. I really appreciate it. My measurements are top center to center 23 cm or 9 1/16" and bottom between the fork legs 19 cm or 7 1/2".

Also thanks to Twisted for the info. I realized last night after doing some searching that this Wide Glide wheel just isn't gonna work. It just really pisses me off that I took that document as gosple and dropped $100 on a wheel that isn't gonna work. Gonna have to try and sell it now so I can get the right wheel.

[Twisted member]

sucks about having the wrong wheel, what even sucks more is I just sold a 21inch sportster wheel 2 days ago for $40 , it was a extra one I was going to powder coat but Im putting custom wheels on over the summer or next winter so I didnt end up needing the other one , I have another 21 but its the same one you already have for a wide glide so that wont help you,

[Camo]

Damn! Double shitter!!! If you come across another one please keep me in mind.

[Twisted member]

Damn! Double shitter!!! If you come across another one please keep me in mind.


Ya if I find one ill let you know ,

[mavrick_69_us]

Thanks for all of your help Maverick. I really appreciate it. My measurements are top center to center 23 cm or 9 1/16" and bottom between the fork legs 19 cm or 7 1/2".

Also thanks to Twisted for the info. I realized last night after doing some searching that this Wide Glide wheel just isn't gonna work. It just really pisses me off that I took that document as gosple and dropped $100 on a wheel that isn't gonna work. Gonna have to try and sell it now so I can get the right wheel.

Lokks like measurements are the same give or take a 16th. Did a little searching myself and came up with wide glide wheel for no speedo, narrow glide wheel with speedo. Bad thing is, if you already installed bearings there is a good chance you'll fuck em up removing them. May want to sell it with 20mm bearings and buy new bearings for narrow wheel. Hell the bearings O.D. and width may not even be the same. Good luck.

[Twisted member]

If I remember right the bearings for the harley wheels were the same for both wheels I had, but if the bearings were new when put in and put in right, you can use the right tool and get them out with out hurting them, but thats up to you , Ive pulled them on new wheels to do powder coating and reused them , due to them being new , but I also have the right tool to put them in and out ,

[dashadowshuffle]

Did anyone ever come up with a solution to the brake caliper issue? I'm in the process of doing the 21" wheel swap on my 96 VT1100. Once the caliper is shimmed out, the pads are just barely gripping the outer edge of the rotor. Has anyone solved this problem? It looks to me that I need a 12.5 rotor instead of a 11.5.

[Camo]

I ditched the plan since it was getting way too expensive for me since I had all the wrong shit and needed to start over again. On your 1100 you'll need a 13" rotor. The 11.5" isn't even close (as you've found out). Your stock rotor is 336mm or 13.22 inches.

[dashadowshuffle]

I was just hoping that there was another way out besides a $300 rotor. I'm going to check with the guy that machined my axle and see how much it would cost for him to make me a bracket. $300 rotor is bullshit, but I might have to do it.