Cleaning Carbon Build Up

[Ghost_Rider]

Hey all,

What do you use to clean your piston top, piston rings and valves frm carbon build up, without opening up the cylinder?

I heard Seafoam will do the job, where can I get it on line? (or is it available in autoparts store? Btw I'm not in the State but I hv a friend who can help me to buy).

Any other chemical that will work?

Thanks

[navillustoo]

Herbert,
What I've done on automobile engines, and it should work on a bike engine as well, is to introduce water into the carburetor throat while keeping the engine's RPM's up high enough so that the engine doesn't die. It's certainly cheap and easy to do and will not hurt anything as long as you don't pour too large an amount all at once. The water rapidly cools the components in the combustion chamber and the carbon deposits pop right off. It's an old mechanic's trick to rid the piston tops of carbon build-up that causes the engine to run hot and ping or detonate. Give it a try!

Brian

[AirportFF]

Herbert,
What I've done on automobile engines, and it should work on a bike engine as well, is to introduce water into the carburetor throat while keeping the engine's RPM's up high enough so that the engine doesn't die. It's certainly cheap and easy to do and will not hurt anything as long as you don't pour too large an amount all at once. The water rapidly cools the components in the combustion chamber and the carbon deposits pop right off. It's an old mechanic's trick to rid the piston tops of carbon build-up that causes the engine to run hot and ping or detonate. Give it a try!

Brian

Brian, don't you run the risk of getting a piece of the carbon stuck in an exhaust valve and possibly ending up with a burned valve?

[RAZOR]

sounds like somthing i would mess up big time.
logical,but like airort states you could run that risk.

[RustyJake]

Okay, so the first step is move the bike over to the garden hose. Would the second step be to remove the aircleaner and insert hose? :no::wink_2:
I guess you could get a water 'mister' for flowers and spray that in, or would that not be enough Brian?

The other cleaner that works for cars is auto transmission fluid in the intake. I like the idea of something like seafoam though, it's for idiots like me that would wind up messing something up.

[AirportFF]

With my luck I'd hydolock the fucking thing:no:

[pegscraper]

Pretty much anything that will clean the carbon off the pistons runs the risk of getting stuck in the exhaust valve. If it comes off, it has to go somewhere. Have you scoped it to see if there is buildup? Why do you think you need to do it? Is it running that rich? Build up on your plugs?

[Ghost_Rider]

Pretty much anything that will clean the carbon off the pistons runs the risk of getting stuck in the exhaust valve. If it comes off, it has to go somewhere. Have you scoped it to see if there is buildup? Why do you think you need to do it? Is it running that rich? Build up on your plugs?

I open my plugs and took a peep with a flash light. The piston crown in all black, and I can scrape it (slowly) with small felt tip screw driver. Not that thick so they come off in chips, but covering quite even.

This is a common things here and the problem is with our gasoline. They don't hv much additive & detergent, and always mixed illegally with kerosene (a lot of idiots here trying to make as much money as they can...). Something that I can't control. The available octan also another problem, we only hv 1 type below 85 and 2 types above 92. None of them is suitable for my VLX which require 86-87. I'm using the lowest octane which is always premixed illegally, making it cannot be burnt completely inside combustion chamber. I tried the higher octane and it only make less power & foul my plugs within a half gas tank.

So here's another question: What can I use to treat my dirty gas?
Any chemistery freak out there who might know something that can neutralize kerosene in gas?

[pegscraper]

Do you have fuel system cleaners available? How about octane booster? The system cleaner should take care of it for you.

[Ghost_Rider]

Herbert,
What I've done on automobile engines, and it should work on a bike engine as well, is to introduce water into the carburetor throat while keeping the engine's RPM's up high enough so that the engine doesn't die. It's certainly cheap and easy to do and will not hurt anything as long as you don't pour too large an amount all at once. The water rapidly cools the components in the combustion chamber and the carbon deposits pop right off. It's an old mechanic's trick to rid the piston tops of carbon build-up that causes the engine to run hot and ping or detonate. Give it a try!

Brian


Thanks Brian,
Sounds logical, but I'm wondering the same thing as Glenn, how much is enough or not too much? Will the water stay in my carbs and in the end I hv to open them up to clean?

[navillustoo]

Brian, don't you run the risk of getting a piece of the carbon stuck in an exhaust valve and possibly ending up with a burned valve?
Clint,
I've never had that happen, don't know if it could. As you're putting the water through the carb throat and keeping the RPM up, the engine is belching white smoke out the exhaust pipes. This is a trick shown to me over 30 years ago by an old time mechanic, it's always worked. I had a 6 cylinder Duster that was bad about building up carbon. It would get to the point where the engine would spark-knock because of the carbon build-up. He showed me how to eliminate the carbon using this method, and I would have to do it about once a year. I never had any problem with burning valves. I suppose that the carbon, once it was dislodged from the internal engine surfaces, would not stick to anything else due to ingesting the water. Any carbon that was on the valves was removed as well. It was explained to me that the water quickly cooled the surfaces, causing the carbon to come off. I don't know if it came off in small pieces, large pieces or was just burned up by the combustion process. All I can tell you is that it worked and never caused me any other problems.

Brian

[navillustoo]

Okay, so the first step is move the bike over to the garden hose. Would the second step be to remove the aircleaner and insert hose? :no::wink_2:
I guess you could get a water 'mister' for flowers and spray that in, or would that not be enough Brian?

The other cleaner that works for cars is auto transmission fluid in the intake. I like the idea of something like seafoam though, it's for idiots like me that would wind up messing something up.

RJ,
I think the garden hose would supply TOO MUCH water! When I poured water down the carb on the car, I did it from a drinking glass. It doesn't take a large volume of water to accomplish this task!

Please, don't anyone stick a garden hose into their carburetor and say Nav said this was the thing to do! LOL! It just takes a few ounces, less than a full beer can!

On a motorcycle, there is the problem of how to get the water into the carb throat. I would guess that using a baster from the kitchen would be a good method. Or any other vessel that could supply the water horizontally and regulate the amount of water that you are putting in there.

Brian

[navillustoo]

Thanks Brian,
Sounds logical, but I'm wondering the same thing as Glenn, how much is enough or not too much? Will the water stay in my carbs and in the end I hv to open them up to clean?

Herbert,
No, the water only passes through the carb's throat, it never gets into the carb itself. As I stated to Glenn earlier, it only takes a few ounces, less than 12. I don't know metric very well, maybe 1/4 to 1/2 of a liter? You pour it slowly, while keeping the engine RPM's up high enough so that the engine doesn't die. On a car, it's not that difficult to do. On a bike, it may be harder because you can't actually pour the water in.

Brian

[JetDoctor]

YIKES:no:...How about the old fashioned way...Wind her up on the highway and blow the carbon out!

[pegscraper]

YIKES:no:...How about the old fashioned way...Wind her up on the highway and blow the carbon out!

What do you mean yikes? You dump liquid into turbine engines. What's wrong with piston engines.
I think the big thing is to mist it in. If you get too much liquid into the cylinder at one time it will break the thing apart! Let me think back to A&P school. Compressing liquid 101. HMMM I don't remember that class!

Pegs

[JetDoctor]

I am sure that in small quantities no harm will come. But I have never heard of this method and I was/am a licenced aircraft mechanic who worked on many many piston aircraft engines. But that does not mean it is not so, just I have never heard of it.....Hey Pegs did you go to A&P school? Do you work in the field today? Here is me back in the early 90's

[Ghost_Rider]

Herbert,
No, the water only passes through the carb's throat, it never gets into the carb itself. As I stated to Glenn earlier, it only takes a few ounces, less than 12. I don't know metric very well, maybe 1/4 to 1/2 of a liter? You pour it slowly, while keeping the engine RPM's up high enough so that the engine doesn't die. On a car, it's not that difficult to do. On a bike, it may be harder because you can't actually pour the water in.

Brian


Brian,
For V twin engine should we treat one cylinder at a time?
So less than 12 ounces per cylinder or both?

I found some info about Yamaha Combustion Chamber Cleaner:
"Combustion Chamber Cleaner: Yamaha’s Combustion Chamber Cleaner is a good shock treatment for older engines that have never used “Ring Free.” This cleaner is to be used directly from the can into the intake tract of the engine. The engine must first be brought up to operational temperature. Run the engine at fast idle and spray the appropriate amount of cleaner into the intake tract. For best results, spray at least 10 seconds for every 100cc of engine displacement. Evenly divide the time of spray for multi-cylinder models. After the engine has been sprayed turn the engine off and let it sit between 15 and 60 minutes depending on the severity of carbon build-up. Do not let sit longer than 60 minutes with combustion chamber cleaner in the cylinders. After the appropriate amount of time, start the engine and run under a medium load. Do not accelerate hard for at lease 10 minutes. If a repeat application is required, follow the same procedures. After the shock treatment, replace the spark plugs on 2/4 stroke engines. On the 4-stroke engine, replace the engine oil and filter after treatment, due to possible oil dilution."

This is the product:
http://www.powerpartsplus.com/clearancedetails_1904_1.aspx

In your opinion, and just for our discussion of course, will water work better than this?
I did read somewhere that pure water is the best cooling device for radiator (I think frm Redline's Water Wetter website). It has a very good heat transfer capability.

I know I'll be more comfortable to try Yamaha CCC though :happy:

[Ghost_Rider]

Do you have fuel system cleaners available? How about octane booster? The system cleaner should take care of it for you.

Yes,
Iv tried one full treatment with STP engine cleaner, PLUS STP Octane Booster. I think they are not working. Don't hv to waste money trying this stuff.

[navillustoo]

Herbert,
We were using the water method long before anybody came out with a product to remove carbon deposits. While it may not be as thorough as a specific combustion chamber cleaner, you don't have to replace the spark plugs or change the oil afterwards either! I would suggest you do what you are most comfortable with, but using plain old H2O is certainly the cheapest way to go! Apparently the Yami CCC uses a chemical reaction with carbon to remove/dissolve it, the water just super-cools the carbon causing it to come loose from the hot metallic surfaces it was connected to.

Brian

[AirportFF]

RJ,

Please, don't anyone stick a garden hose into their carburetor and say Nav said this was the thing to do! LOL! It just takes a few ounces, less than a full beer can!


Brian

I already did, now that it's all fucked up what are YOU going to do to fix it!!!!!!!:wink_2:

[JetDoctor]

Herbert,
What I've done on automobile engines, and it should work on a bike engine as well, is to introduce water into the carburetor throat while keeping the engine's RPM's up high enough so that the engine doesn't die. It's certainly cheap and easy to do and will not hurt anything as long as you don't pour too large an amount all at once. The water rapidly cools the components in the combustion chamber and the carbon deposits pop right off. It's an old mechanic's trick to rid the piston tops of carbon build-up that causes the engine to run hot and ping or detonate. Give it a try!

Brian

Looks like I have not seen it all! I found this article in Hot Rod magazine. http://www.hotrod.com/tipstricks/41918/index5.html

Good call navillustoo! An old dog can learnnew tricks!

[RustyJake]

I already did, now that it's all fucked up what are YOU going to do to fix it!!!!!!!:wink_2:
Next step, once you have sufficient water is to add Mr. Bubble. You should see it working.

Remember, it was all Nav's idea! :wink_2:

I don't think the octane booster would help you that much Ghost-Rider if they are mixing your gas with kerosine, I don't even think cleaner mixed in the gas would help. It may keep carbon from forming, so it may be something to look at adding to 'each' of your tanks of gas. It'll cost more to refuel, but if it keeps the motor clean it'd be worth it. I think the spray bottle suggestion is worth a shot and affordable.

[Machinehead]

JetDoctor,
This isn't a response to your post.

I logged in and responded due to your avatar.

I find it tasteless and UN funny.

I would like to suggest a theme associated with boobs or machines.


jus my 2
THANX

[navillustoo]

I already did, now that it's all fucked up what are YOU going to do to fix it!!!!!!!:wink_2:

Shit! Well Clint, if YOU ride it down here to Ky., I'll go through the engine for you and straighten it out! Goddamn firemen, just gotta hose everything, don't you!?! LMAO!

Brian

[navillustoo]

Looks like I have not seen it all! I found this article in Hot Rod magazine. http://www.hotrod.com/tipstricks/41918/index5.html

Good call navillustoo! An old dog can learnnew tricks!

JD,
I'll bet I'm an older dog than you! :wink_2:

Brian

[Ghost_Rider]

I don't think the octane booster would help you that much Ghost-Rider if they are mixing your gas with kerosine, I don't even think cleaner mixed in the gas would help. It may keep carbon from forming, so it may be something to look at adding to 'each' of your tanks of gas. It'll cost more to refuel, but if it keeps the motor clean it'd be worth it. I think the spray bottle suggestion is worth a shot and affordable.[/QUOTE]

Heheh.., I'll give it a shot . Sht I hv to remember this...not garden hose...not garden hose....

[Ghost_Rider]

Goddamn firemen, just gotta hose everything, don't you!?! LMAO!

Brian[/QUOTE]


:laugh3:

[JetDoctor]

JetDoctor,
This isn't a response to your post.

I logged in and responded due to your avatar.

I find it tasteless and UN funny.

I would like to suggest a theme associated with boobs or machines.


jus my 2
THANX

:Boobs:

[Machinehead]

Thank You JD!

I really do have a sense of humor.

[JetDoctor]

So do I...Sometimes I carried away a little.:wink_2:

[Ghost_Rider]

Hey Brian, Thanks a lot !!

[Ghost_Rider]

Hey all,

Few days a go I send my car for tune up and the mechanic use G'zok engine conditioner to clean the combustion chamber (www.gzok.com, English Version). It supposed to be sprayed to throttle chamber while engine is running, but he also spray into the plug holes.

I tried it on my VLX and surprisingly this product works great!

I warm up the engine for about 5-10 mnts to get the piston hot. Then open one plug which face to the side on each cylinder and blast the piston top with G'zok (or what ever brand of cleaner you can find), just enough to make it wet and soak the carbon for a few minutes.

Crank the engine several times with all plug wire off (or kill switch on) and your finger on the plug hole to extract any fluid inside the combustion chamber. Make sure to cover your finger with some cloth!

Replace all plugs and wire, start the engine and it will iddle a bit rough for few sec and white smoke comes out frm exhaust pipe, together with some carbon powder!
Then rev it or accelerate hard to remove any carbon that still sticking inside.

To clean the valve stems, valve head and cylinder head which is higher than the plug hole, other than spraying through the throttle chamber I also spray frm the same plug hole. How? see the picture attached. I bent the straw tip 90 degree to shoot upwards.

I did this 3 - 4 times, and now I can see that my piston top is clean. The amount of carbon left is only about 5-10% (of course I can't see the whole surface), which should be able to come off with few more treatment and adding some seafoam to the tank.

The engine now runs A LOT smoother and accelerate lighter. It's a very noticable difference. I'm sure I will gain some mpg as well :happy:

[Rick S]

Are you kidding me NEVER put water in your engine, are you trying bend the rods? I have seen it done on a car engine.